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not_sophieI know, I know, this isn't ConRevo OR Inomata. But alas, it must be done, because I see no reason why everything in this book shouldn't be translated. By me, since I really have no clue whether anyone else has translated any particular thing from the Tales franchise at this point. Boy was everything so much easier to find in the internet of forums and fansites compared to the internet of Reddits and Discords.
Tales of Berseria, just like the previous entry Tales of Zestiria, had four character designers: Ms. Inomata, Daigo Okumura, Minoru Iwamoto, and yourself. How did everyone's work go this time?
Designing characters with everyone else is tough. Since I didn't know what kinds of designs the others would offer up, I felt lost.
But the reception of the characters and game are both good.
That's good, then. I'm relieved (laughs).
To start with, when did word of Berseria's production reach you?
I heard that they were going to continue from when I was working on Tales of Zestiria. I didn't know anything at all about the details back then, though.
You didn't know that it would take place 1000 years before Zestiria, either?
I hadn't heard about those details, either. I feel like when Zestiria was in production, I'd heard that it would be a continuation that explained its world more. I don't think I got any concrete details about what the next title would be like until around the time Zestiria was released. I received the orders last year, and if I recall, I sent off Eleanor's character design first. I created rough designs of both Eleanor and Artorius, but in terms of the completed versions, I uploaded Eleanor's first.
What did you think when you heard the worlds were connected?
The designs on Sorey's clothing should be completely different from in Berseria. It was difficult to make it completely different while still showing the connection, though.
Certainly, a lot would change in 1000 years.
That's why Sorey's clothes and the patterns on them are so different. But even though they're different, I wanted to show that they developed from the same thing. In actuality, Artorius and Eleanor's pattern match Sorey's a little. You might not be able to tell at first glance which parts are the same, though (laughs).
The pattern on Eleanor's uniform is more simple than Sorey's. Over 1000 years, the design slowly became more complicated... until it became what Sorey wears.
No, that was just because I thought it would be tough to animate outside the game (laughs). It would be a lot to draw anything like the fluttering and flapping of Sorey's mantle in 2D, so I thought it would be best not to overdo it.
Other than Artorius and Eleanor, there are other characters that are affiliated with the Abbey. Their uniforms also have those patterns. Did the pattern you design get used by the Bandai Namco Entertainment (BNE) folks to design their uniforms?
There are things where BNE tells me, "This is the setting," and there are also things like this that I design that they end up following instead. Sometimes I would ask what's going on with specific things, too.
Tell us about how the design process actually went.
As usual, I first hear from BNE about what they want. That's when we'll have a discussion abotu any questions I think of, or things that are likely to become important points.
What particular questions did you think of?
One example was how Artorius draws his sword. I was told, "He only has one arm, but he's an extraordinary person." If he needed the sword, he would draw it, but it was also established that he would normally hold it like a staff. That way, he could make use of the sword's guard to unsheathe it. Since I couldn't see how he would move in the game, I didn't know whether that's actually how he would do it.
It sounds like the fact that he has only one arm made things hard.
It was indeed quite difficult. The fact that he has a carving knife was also something I wasn't sure about. In the setting, he had been carving things for a long time, but it seemed like it would be very hard to do with just your left arm. How would you hold what you're carving? And then how would you carve it? I wondered if maybe he held the wood between his feet. Though, it seems it might have just been something he kept from before he was injured, and had simply been wearing it there since a long time ago. I had questions about how he would use it, but didn't go as far as to think through how he would put it on.
When you're drawing characters, do you design them with their clothing in mind?
No, I think of them separately. But since I had to design with a connection to things like Sorey's mantle, I kept that point in mind from the start. I feel like... I recall hearing that Artorius is someone that Sorey would admire.
Artorius is set up as a boss character. Was it difficult to make him feel like one?
Not only is he a boss character, but he's one that players aren't supposed to be able to tell will become one. I didn't make him feel completely like he would be a boss character, and I didn't make him ominous.
I see.
I tried to give him a look of grounded strength, as well as a dignified presence.
He's the person who decides this world's order, so he's a very important individual.
But he gets defeated, doesn't he? (laughs)
Do you dislike it a little that a character you designed gets defeated?
No, I don't have a problem with it. I've designed final bosses before now, too.
Do you prefer to draw protagonists, or final bosses?
They're about the same. There aren't many evil characters in the Tales of series, anyway.
In that sense, Velvet was a unique heroine, wasn't she?
That's true. But if anything, I think it might be interesting to have a much more evil protagonist, if there is a next time.
Moving on to Eleanor, how was her design process?
Her face came to me right away, but the altered uniform she wears was difficult. A model student type of person, if they were going to change their uniform at all, wouldn't make changes that stand out too much. But in that case, it wouldn't look like it was altered at all.
So in her case, the change came in the form of her skirt.
That's right. I kept thinking, "Eleanor wouldn't do something like this," and eventually settled on the change being to her skirt. I don't usually get that kind of request, so it was pretty hard.
But the miniskirt and long boots look cute together. Don't you like drawing this kind of character?
I like it well enough (laughs).
Thinking up the materials of clothing in a fantasy world seems difficult.
Like how Artorius's gloves probably aren't leather, for example.
And things like undergarments, too. Eleanor wears a camisole and skort under her uniform, but I wonder what she wears underneath that.
It's a mystery whether she wears a bra or not... But in this time period, I don't think they would have bras, would they? Maybe a corset. We don't know that much about the cultural background, so it's hard to say if they exist in this work or not. That's also the sort of thing that makes it difficult.
This time, Iwamoto from Bandai Namco Studio worked as the Art Director. You primarily had conversations with him, correct?
That's right. It was basically just Iwamoto and Baba (Hideo Baba, Tales of series Brand Manager and Producer) I had correspondence with.
Okumura participated as a Character Designer for this work, but he was the Art Director for works like Tales of Xillia. From your perspective, what kind of work does he do?
We didn't really talk that much, but he seems like the kind of person who has incredible focus when he's drawing.
Okumura told us that a sense of rhythm when drawing is important. We're not sure we understood that sense very well, but do you have any thoughts on it?
I understand it. I do it consciously, myself. I guess that's something we have in common.
Okumura is always drawing. Apparently he even draws on a tablet during his commute.
Really? I was thinking it might be time for me to finally buy an iPad Pro.
Do you want to draw manga storyboards on a tablet?
No, it's not storyboards I want it for. I thought I might want to draw character reference sheets on it. It seems like it might be good for something like that.
You don't really draw illustrations on tablets much, do you?
Not really. I think I would be able to, I just haven't done it.
I've heard that if you get used to using a tablet, you'll stop using traditional materials like paper.
There are quite a lot of people who use tablets for professional work, though.
There must be a lot of manga artists who have moved to digital, too.
Yeah, you can even add color to them with tablets. It seems convenient if you can use them well.
Let's talk about Iwamoto now. After working with him when he was Art Director for Zestiria, what was your impression of him?
I thought he was very capable in terms of the comprehensive direction.
So he's someone who looks not just at the individual characters, but the game as a whole?
That's right.
Iwamoto talked about how, when he feels like "a life has been born," that's when he feels character design work is rewarding. He also said that it's fun to see the characters he gave birth to grow. Have you ever had those kinds of thoughts?
In my case, once it gets to the stage where I can play the game, I don't really feel like they're something I created.
Really? Even though they're the characters you created, you don't feel like you created them?
They get turned into 3D models, voices and movements are added -- as they pass through the hands of many different people, they become something different. Of course, I am still attached to the various characters.
Then, when you're actually seeing them while playing the game, they feel fresh, in a way?
Yes. It's fun to enjoy them as I would with any other game, separately from the fact that I designed characters in them.
Do you ever think, "Oh yeah, I designed this character"?
No, I certainly am aware that I designed them, it's just that I don't get a feeling that they "belong" to me.
Is it any different in the case of manga?
No, even with manga that I drew, it feels the same way as with games once it's done.
Huh? Does it really?
Once it's at the printing stage, it already makes me feel like just saying, "Oh, I see."
Do you ever read your own manga once a volume is published?
I do. It's interesting. I read them as if they were drawn by someone else.
So you're able to read them from the standpoint of a fan.
I read them from the perspective of a reader. I don't feel very strongly about the fact that I was the one who drew it, after all.
It's a bit like, once you've finished drawing everything, it gets cut off from you.
Yeah. I don't have any particular tendency towards or against them one they're finished.
It seems you view game and manga characters in that same way.
That's right. It's done once I'm completely finished with the drawing stage.
Berseria was released on both PS4 and PS3. It's the first title in the series to be released for PS4, but can you perceive a difference?
No. Since it ultimately needs to be compatible with PS3 as well, it can't use any kind of motion that only the PS4 can handle. The resolution of the textures might differ, but for this, you can't see all that big of a difference. If it were PS4-only, maybe you could express a wider variety of things, and have long mantles fluttering.
What are your thoughts when you look back on the character design work you did for Berseria?
It really was difficult, since there were so many unique orders.
Such as Artorius being one-armed, and Eleanor's uniform modifications?
Yes. "She's a serious type of person, yet she's altering her uniform?" Even for Artorius, "He has a gentle aura, but rather than being a handsome man, he also has a sense of gravity as the last boss..." There were a lot of requests that were contradictory in some sense, and I worried about it more than I ever did before.
Applying those to the character certainly does seem difficult. Describing it is one them, but it sounds like actually illustrating it is a whole different struggle.
Yes, but that's probably exactly why the characters aren't stereotypical. The same goes for characters designed by the others.
When we spoke with Ms. Inomata, she told us, "Since the party members in Berseria are a mishmash of a group, it wasn't really necessary for the characters the others drew to match. They designed them freely.
Well, I still get curious, though (laughs). Like, what kinds of characters are the others making?
What do you think about where the series will go from here?
That's what I want to know (laughs).
Since we're approaching the 21st year, I think about if the series will continue for longer still. After all, only a handful of game franchises lasts 21 years.
That really is the case, isn't it? I've been associated with the Tales of series for a truly long time. I hope that as long as I live, there will be yet another next entry in the series (laughs).
[note: The following comments on the character reference sheets and 3D models are not explicitly part of the interview, but were from the bottom of the same pages the interview was on.]
Character Reference Sheet for Animation: Eleanor
The first time I saw this, I noticed that the writing on her uniform's ornamentation is even on her reference sheet. They have the details on the sole of her shoe, too. I think they adapted her appearance into anime form faithfully.
3D Model: Eleanor
As expected, it's very well done. It's considerably different compared to the time of Tales of Phantasia. Back then, characters were rendered in pixels, and Tales of Symphonia was the first time polygons were used. I didn't really specify the skirt bulging out that you can see from the side, but I think they finished up the design in a way that looks good.
Character Reference Sheet for Animation: Artorius
In the anime-style version, they depicted him with gray hair rather than white. It gives more of the feeling of "not being a handsome man, and having a gentle aura." When you see him from behind, you can see that the design on his cape with arrows and circles is symmetrical.
3D Model: Artorius
Since the collar of his mantle is blue, its height stands out. You can see how the populace would view him as an extremely magnificent individual. Though, seeing it this way, it feels like it's meant for Winter Comiket (laughs). It seems like it would be too hto to cosplay it in Summer Comiket.
Date of interview: 2016/8/30
Tales of Berseria, just like the previous entry Tales of Zestiria, had four character designers: Ms. Inomata, Daigo Okumura, Minoru Iwamoto, and yourself. How did everyone's work go this time?
Designing characters with everyone else is tough. Since I didn't know what kinds of designs the others would offer up, I felt lost.
But the reception of the characters and game are both good.
That's good, then. I'm relieved (laughs).
To start with, when did word of Berseria's production reach you?
I heard that they were going to continue from when I was working on Tales of Zestiria. I didn't know anything at all about the details back then, though.
You didn't know that it would take place 1000 years before Zestiria, either?
I hadn't heard about those details, either. I feel like when Zestiria was in production, I'd heard that it would be a continuation that explained its world more. I don't think I got any concrete details about what the next title would be like until around the time Zestiria was released. I received the orders last year, and if I recall, I sent off Eleanor's character design first. I created rough designs of both Eleanor and Artorius, but in terms of the completed versions, I uploaded Eleanor's first.
What did you think when you heard the worlds were connected?
The designs on Sorey's clothing should be completely different from in Berseria. It was difficult to make it completely different while still showing the connection, though.
Certainly, a lot would change in 1000 years.
That's why Sorey's clothes and the patterns on them are so different. But even though they're different, I wanted to show that they developed from the same thing. In actuality, Artorius and Eleanor's pattern match Sorey's a little. You might not be able to tell at first glance which parts are the same, though (laughs).
The pattern on Eleanor's uniform is more simple than Sorey's. Over 1000 years, the design slowly became more complicated... until it became what Sorey wears.
No, that was just because I thought it would be tough to animate outside the game (laughs). It would be a lot to draw anything like the fluttering and flapping of Sorey's mantle in 2D, so I thought it would be best not to overdo it.
Other than Artorius and Eleanor, there are other characters that are affiliated with the Abbey. Their uniforms also have those patterns. Did the pattern you design get used by the Bandai Namco Entertainment (BNE) folks to design their uniforms?
There are things where BNE tells me, "This is the setting," and there are also things like this that I design that they end up following instead. Sometimes I would ask what's going on with specific things, too.
Tell us about how the design process actually went.
As usual, I first hear from BNE about what they want. That's when we'll have a discussion abotu any questions I think of, or things that are likely to become important points.
What particular questions did you think of?
One example was how Artorius draws his sword. I was told, "He only has one arm, but he's an extraordinary person." If he needed the sword, he would draw it, but it was also established that he would normally hold it like a staff. That way, he could make use of the sword's guard to unsheathe it. Since I couldn't see how he would move in the game, I didn't know whether that's actually how he would do it.
It sounds like the fact that he has only one arm made things hard.
It was indeed quite difficult. The fact that he has a carving knife was also something I wasn't sure about. In the setting, he had been carving things for a long time, but it seemed like it would be very hard to do with just your left arm. How would you hold what you're carving? And then how would you carve it? I wondered if maybe he held the wood between his feet. Though, it seems it might have just been something he kept from before he was injured, and had simply been wearing it there since a long time ago. I had questions about how he would use it, but didn't go as far as to think through how he would put it on.
When you're drawing characters, do you design them with their clothing in mind?
No, I think of them separately. But since I had to design with a connection to things like Sorey's mantle, I kept that point in mind from the start. I feel like... I recall hearing that Artorius is someone that Sorey would admire.
Artorius is set up as a boss character. Was it difficult to make him feel like one?
Not only is he a boss character, but he's one that players aren't supposed to be able to tell will become one. I didn't make him feel completely like he would be a boss character, and I didn't make him ominous.
I see.
I tried to give him a look of grounded strength, as well as a dignified presence.
He's the person who decides this world's order, so he's a very important individual.
But he gets defeated, doesn't he? (laughs)
Do you dislike it a little that a character you designed gets defeated?
No, I don't have a problem with it. I've designed final bosses before now, too.
Do you prefer to draw protagonists, or final bosses?
They're about the same. There aren't many evil characters in the Tales of series, anyway.
In that sense, Velvet was a unique heroine, wasn't she?
That's true. But if anything, I think it might be interesting to have a much more evil protagonist, if there is a next time.
Moving on to Eleanor, how was her design process?
Her face came to me right away, but the altered uniform she wears was difficult. A model student type of person, if they were going to change their uniform at all, wouldn't make changes that stand out too much. But in that case, it wouldn't look like it was altered at all.
So in her case, the change came in the form of her skirt.
That's right. I kept thinking, "Eleanor wouldn't do something like this," and eventually settled on the change being to her skirt. I don't usually get that kind of request, so it was pretty hard.
But the miniskirt and long boots look cute together. Don't you like drawing this kind of character?
I like it well enough (laughs).
Thinking up the materials of clothing in a fantasy world seems difficult.
Like how Artorius's gloves probably aren't leather, for example.
And things like undergarments, too. Eleanor wears a camisole and skort under her uniform, but I wonder what she wears underneath that.
It's a mystery whether she wears a bra or not... But in this time period, I don't think they would have bras, would they? Maybe a corset. We don't know that much about the cultural background, so it's hard to say if they exist in this work or not. That's also the sort of thing that makes it difficult.
This time, Iwamoto from Bandai Namco Studio worked as the Art Director. You primarily had conversations with him, correct?
That's right. It was basically just Iwamoto and Baba (Hideo Baba, Tales of series Brand Manager and Producer) I had correspondence with.
Okumura participated as a Character Designer for this work, but he was the Art Director for works like Tales of Xillia. From your perspective, what kind of work does he do?
We didn't really talk that much, but he seems like the kind of person who has incredible focus when he's drawing.
Okumura told us that a sense of rhythm when drawing is important. We're not sure we understood that sense very well, but do you have any thoughts on it?
I understand it. I do it consciously, myself. I guess that's something we have in common.
Okumura is always drawing. Apparently he even draws on a tablet during his commute.
Really? I was thinking it might be time for me to finally buy an iPad Pro.
Do you want to draw manga storyboards on a tablet?
No, it's not storyboards I want it for. I thought I might want to draw character reference sheets on it. It seems like it might be good for something like that.
You don't really draw illustrations on tablets much, do you?
Not really. I think I would be able to, I just haven't done it.
I've heard that if you get used to using a tablet, you'll stop using traditional materials like paper.
There are quite a lot of people who use tablets for professional work, though.
There must be a lot of manga artists who have moved to digital, too.
Yeah, you can even add color to them with tablets. It seems convenient if you can use them well.
Let's talk about Iwamoto now. After working with him when he was Art Director for Zestiria, what was your impression of him?
I thought he was very capable in terms of the comprehensive direction.
So he's someone who looks not just at the individual characters, but the game as a whole?
That's right.
Iwamoto talked about how, when he feels like "a life has been born," that's when he feels character design work is rewarding. He also said that it's fun to see the characters he gave birth to grow. Have you ever had those kinds of thoughts?
In my case, once it gets to the stage where I can play the game, I don't really feel like they're something I created.
Really? Even though they're the characters you created, you don't feel like you created them?
They get turned into 3D models, voices and movements are added -- as they pass through the hands of many different people, they become something different. Of course, I am still attached to the various characters.
Then, when you're actually seeing them while playing the game, they feel fresh, in a way?
Yes. It's fun to enjoy them as I would with any other game, separately from the fact that I designed characters in them.
Do you ever think, "Oh yeah, I designed this character"?
No, I certainly am aware that I designed them, it's just that I don't get a feeling that they "belong" to me.
Is it any different in the case of manga?
No, even with manga that I drew, it feels the same way as with games once it's done.
Huh? Does it really?
Once it's at the printing stage, it already makes me feel like just saying, "Oh, I see."
Do you ever read your own manga once a volume is published?
I do. It's interesting. I read them as if they were drawn by someone else.
So you're able to read them from the standpoint of a fan.
I read them from the perspective of a reader. I don't feel very strongly about the fact that I was the one who drew it, after all.
It's a bit like, once you've finished drawing everything, it gets cut off from you.
Yeah. I don't have any particular tendency towards or against them one they're finished.
It seems you view game and manga characters in that same way.
That's right. It's done once I'm completely finished with the drawing stage.
Berseria was released on both PS4 and PS3. It's the first title in the series to be released for PS4, but can you perceive a difference?
No. Since it ultimately needs to be compatible with PS3 as well, it can't use any kind of motion that only the PS4 can handle. The resolution of the textures might differ, but for this, you can't see all that big of a difference. If it were PS4-only, maybe you could express a wider variety of things, and have long mantles fluttering.
What are your thoughts when you look back on the character design work you did for Berseria?
It really was difficult, since there were so many unique orders.
Such as Artorius being one-armed, and Eleanor's uniform modifications?
Yes. "She's a serious type of person, yet she's altering her uniform?" Even for Artorius, "He has a gentle aura, but rather than being a handsome man, he also has a sense of gravity as the last boss..." There were a lot of requests that were contradictory in some sense, and I worried about it more than I ever did before.
Applying those to the character certainly does seem difficult. Describing it is one them, but it sounds like actually illustrating it is a whole different struggle.
Yes, but that's probably exactly why the characters aren't stereotypical. The same goes for characters designed by the others.
When we spoke with Ms. Inomata, she told us, "Since the party members in Berseria are a mishmash of a group, it wasn't really necessary for the characters the others drew to match. They designed them freely.
Well, I still get curious, though (laughs). Like, what kinds of characters are the others making?
What do you think about where the series will go from here?
That's what I want to know (laughs).
Since we're approaching the 21st year, I think about if the series will continue for longer still. After all, only a handful of game franchises lasts 21 years.
That really is the case, isn't it? I've been associated with the Tales of series for a truly long time. I hope that as long as I live, there will be yet another next entry in the series (laughs).
[note: The following comments on the character reference sheets and 3D models are not explicitly part of the interview, but were from the bottom of the same pages the interview was on.]
Character Reference Sheet for Animation: Eleanor
The first time I saw this, I noticed that the writing on her uniform's ornamentation is even on her reference sheet. They have the details on the sole of her shoe, too. I think they adapted her appearance into anime form faithfully.
3D Model: Eleanor
As expected, it's very well done. It's considerably different compared to the time of Tales of Phantasia. Back then, characters were rendered in pixels, and Tales of Symphonia was the first time polygons were used. I didn't really specify the skirt bulging out that you can see from the side, but I think they finished up the design in a way that looks good.
Character Reference Sheet for Animation: Artorius
In the anime-style version, they depicted him with gray hair rather than white. It gives more of the feeling of "not being a handsome man, and having a gentle aura." When you see him from behind, you can see that the design on his cape with arrows and circles is symmetrical.
3D Model: Artorius
Since the collar of his mantle is blue, its height stands out. You can see how the populace would view him as an extremely magnificent individual. Though, seeing it this way, it feels like it's meant for Winter Comiket (laughs). It seems like it would be too hto to cosplay it in Summer Comiket.
Date of interview: 2016/8/30
